Comments on: Milquetoast Agnosticism http://aether.com/archives/milquetoast_agnosticism.html Editorial archive for Gary Wolf Wed, 09 Mar 2011 08:13:46 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Alan Cooper http://aether.com/archives/milquetoast_agnosticism.html/comment-page-1#comment-4 Alan Cooper Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:40:30 +0000 http://aether.com/?p=43#comment-4 So, Gary, you have decided to "refuse the call" to join in the crusade of the non-believers. But this begs the question of what you would say yourself when asked to declare your position. This you did quite innocently to your friends in the anecdote in your article but it also often happens less benignly in courtrooms, political meetings, and tax forms. The proper call is not for an end to tolerance for religious beliefs (at least for those that are relatively benign in their consequences) but an end to the intolerance of non-belief which is manifest throughout North American society - and to which your article contributed by implicitly identifying all who declare non-belief with the atheist fundamentalists (which you did by failing to acknowledge the alternative). Your blog posting here goes some way towards correcting that, at least to the extent of clarifying your own position, but cannot come close to undoing the damage done by the article. So, Gary, you have decided to “refuse the call” to join in the crusade of the non-believers. But this begs the question of what you would say yourself when asked to declare your position. This you did quite innocently to your friends in the anecdote in your article but it also often happens less benignly in courtrooms, political meetings, and tax forms.

The proper call is not for an end to tolerance for religious beliefs (at least for those that are relatively benign in their consequences) but an end to the intolerance of non-belief which is manifest throughout North American society – and to which your article contributed by implicitly identifying all who declare non-belief with the atheist fundamentalists (which you did by failing to acknowledge the alternative).

Your blog posting here goes some way towards correcting that, at least to the extent of clarifying your own position, but cannot come close to undoing the damage done by the article.

]]> By: Daniel Morgan http://aether.com/archives/milquetoast_agnosticism.html/comment-page-1#comment-3 Daniel Morgan Tue, 31 Oct 2006 15:57:56 +0000 http://aether.com/?p=43#comment-3 I think we all see the effect of gentle respect -- the spreading cancer that is religious fundamentalism has grown and grown. It is time to say "fuck tepid atheism" and "fuck gentle respect"; those with brains will understand the danger, and willingly sacrifice their sensitive religious sensibilities to the greater cause of preserving the human race from religiously-driven extinction. Those who don't, won't. There is a greater concern here than feelings and causing offense. Gary just doesn't focus enough on that. I don't know that the charge against secularists that we are "tolerant of everything except religion" is even wrong; so long as it is qualified that secularists are intolerant of <em>violence-laden and dangerous religion</em>. I have never, in all my time reading atheist sites and etc., seen a rant against Buddhism or Taoism. I have never seen the godless rally around an article by a Quaker and demean and belittle his pacifism. I have seen, over and over, atheists, secular humanists, etc., rally around those extremist elements of the Christian and Muslim religion and expose the folly and danger of their thinking (or lack thereof). And I hope to see more and more of it. I hope. I think we all see the effect of gentle respect — the spreading cancer that is religious fundamentalism has grown and grown. It is time to say “fuck tepid atheism” and “fuck gentle respect”; those with brains will understand the danger, and willingly sacrifice their sensitive religious sensibilities to the greater cause of preserving the human race from religiously-driven extinction. Those who don’t, won’t. There is a greater concern here than feelings and causing offense.

Gary just doesn’t focus enough on that.
I don’t know that the charge against secularists that we are “tolerant of everything except religion” is even wrong; so long as it is qualified that secularists are intolerant of violence-laden and dangerous religion. I have never, in all my time reading atheist sites and etc., seen a rant against Buddhism or Taoism.

I have never seen the godless rally around an article by a Quaker and demean and belittle his pacifism.

I have seen, over and over, atheists, secular humanists, etc., rally around those extremist elements of the Christian and Muslim religion and expose the folly and danger of their thinking (or lack thereof). And I hope to see more and more of it. I hope.

]]> By: Daniel Morgan http://aether.com/archives/milquetoast_agnosticism.html/comment-page-1#comment-2 Daniel Morgan Mon, 30 Oct 2006 15:58:50 +0000 http://aether.com/?p=43#comment-2 Gary, We are not advocating removing anyone's civil liberties. We are advocating a public and serious rebuttal to the fallacious thinking of religious extremists. We are advocating a no-holds-barred, pull-out-all-the-stops, free-for-all in exposing the dangers here, examining the false claims of religion, passionately arguing for reason to prevail over faith... The "crusade" here will not be fought with a sword, or in a courtroom, but on Mars Hill: the public square, the philosophers' corner. We have to counter the fear inspired into the hearts of believers about liberalism and secular humanism with rational arguments; and show them they have nothing to fear but themselves. That's my crusade. I fight it with spilled ink. Gary,

We are not advocating removing anyone’s civil liberties. We are advocating a public and serious rebuttal to the fallacious thinking of religious extremists.

We are advocating a no-holds-barred, pull-out-all-the-stops, free-for-all in exposing the dangers here, examining the false claims of religion, passionately arguing for reason to prevail over faith…

The “crusade” here will not be fought with a sword, or in a courtroom, but on Mars Hill: the public square, the philosophers’ corner. We have to counter the fear inspired into the hearts of believers about liberalism and secular humanism with rational arguments; and show them they have nothing to fear but themselves.

That’s my crusade. I fight it with spilled ink.

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